The runny loose stool & the quest for a solid poo fixed !

Hi all , i thought i would make a post for anyone who has been in the sinking ship we were in & hopefully be of some help to others .........

lil Willow became part of the family at 13 weeks of age at which point she was being fed royal canin 36 kitten dry food and her poo's were very soft & smelt like battery acid or a kind of chemical smell at which point we introduced the royal canin babycat 34 food in an attempt to maybe help as i thought it would be milder on her stomach ,i stuck with this food for 4 weeks but with no change in the poo consistancy her monthly worm treatment ended up with horrible pools of diahorea with slight blood in them ,to say this was very frightening is an understatment ,boiled chicken and rice on several occasions during the next couple of weeks & still trying to stick with the RC babycat introducing it again slowly was the plan ..during this time we went from loose stool's to constipation but had trouble reaching a happy medium :(

I tried introducing applaws dry grain free food which she turned her nose up at & the same with hills dry food ,i finally got her to eat james wellbeloved but the poo was still loose and runny and now we had a little blood back in the deposits ,she was full of beans and still putting on weight during these times but again was very worrying :(

At 17 weeks i started giving her forti-flora which didnt seem to make any difference and started using nutri-plus gel to at least backup any nutrients that she might of been lossing during this time ,again she was still very active and putting weight on ,daily weighing became my life :S

By now i was spending 6 hours a day reading post after post on forums to try and educate myself on feline diets ,have had moggies all my life who ate anything and everything with no problems what so ever ,so started to believe it was a sensitive stomach issue ,now during this time i was nieve and thought that dry food would be the better option and giving wet food would just make matters worse ,but after reading many many posts about wet food being possibly better for cats i took another trip to pets at home to buy some wet food ,the limited choice of anything "quality" wise came down to natures menu ........willow sniffed this and looked at me as if i had offered her a bowl of hedgehog testicles ,back to square one i thought and continued with james wellbeloved...:(

A trip to tesco for weekly shop and i threw a pouch of felix wet food in the trolly not feeling very optimistic about her eating it and also giving her what most people call junk food but was starting to feel like i would try anything at this point ....introduced a little taste to her , the result was i nearly lost a finger and gave her a little more each day increasing the ammounts slowly ,then bought a box of felix kitten as good as it looks ,and slowly removed any dry food from her diet ,she goes wild for felix i dont know what is in it but almost over night her poo started to get normal and the smell was almost pleasent if there is such a thing :P

I thought OK i've got a felix cat she is happy and we have normal poo's i can live with it if that is the food she likes ,a visit to zooplus website and an order of bozita & some kitten carny wet food ,again i thought she will hate this stuff ,oh how wrong i was ........... at this point i have a cat that won't stop eating if she hears a fork or knife strike a plate she will run into the kitchen bowling over anything in her way ,she will dance for food & lick the pattern off the plate when finished ,i am struggling to try and keep her from eating too much and at 19weeks could quite easily eat 500g+ of wet food a day if i let her

Last week she had her scheduled monthly wormer ,what a difference i was expecting runny stools at least and was prepared for diahorea ,but nothing her poo didnt change at all maybe went a little softer ,and no worms present which was nice also :)

Fair to say i will not be going back to dry food again ,i know that for most people it works fine and there cats thrive on it but for me it was nothing but problems, i now have a very very happy cat & the weight i had on my shoulders every day has now been lifted and the daily bottom baths or fights would be a better word have ended...

Anyhow i just thought i would share my story with others maybe visiting here with same problems as me ,this forum has been a wealth of help & knowledge for me & i felt like i should give something back to the community, many thanks to Jackie & candes ,howling bob etc

many thanks

Grace & Willow

wow thanks for sharing your trials and success!
there is a growing body of research and opinion now that cats are just not designed to digest carbohydrate, and the dry diets we offer them are often loaded with carbohydrates so we are asking for problems.

so sorry you and your baby had to suffer to find what works for you, and im so glad you found the answer. :smile:

nice to hear of your success...mine also love felix and as they have dry food to am happy to oblige them. Did have a similar issue when i changed their dry food , but only with one of them changed back after starving and fish and rice for a few days and all good now ... dont really want to keep them on kitten food all their lives tho and can see it is going to be a major head ache changing food again , but will just have to do it even slowe than i did previously in the hope that he will be okay next time.

One of the major problems i had with weaning between different dry foods was that she would just pick out the royal canin & leave the applaws or hills etc ,with the wet food diet it is so easy to add and mix the food's ,Bozita as far as im aware is an all life stage diet so i will be happy to keep her on this ,but for variety i will in time introduce some carny and possibly smilla & occasionally some trusty felix so long as her belly stays settled ,but from my experience so far weaning between wet foods is a lot less stressful on her small belly than dry food switching...

OMG ! a toothbrush im likely to lose a limb or at best a finger :P

agreed candes i have thought about the teeth and chewing problem ,is there chews available or bones that would do a similar job ?
if not i thought of maybe introducing small amounts of dry food possibly large kibbles that she would have to work at chewing, but maybe later once she hits 1 or 2 years of age ,im just very wary of giving any dry food at present as you can imagine ..

by the way ,anyone else's xmas tree getting trashed daily ? :)

Hi Elmo, thanks for updating, and I'm so glad you have resolved those persistent problems, what a relief that must be.

Re. the teeth cleaning issue, on no account go back to any dry food, in any amount. It is a myth that it cleans their teeth. It does no such thing. Think of crisps and biscuits. Same thing. And you have had such bad problems with dry food in the past.

You are right to think of bones or chews. A regular raw chicken wing (raw not cooked) is an excellent teeth cleaner. You might have to persuade your babe that it actually is food, which might take some time. But she will probably have a whale of a time chucking it around the floor until she realises she can eat it.

Alternatively, you could go down the teeth-cleaning route, which is a little more stressful.

Brilliant that Willow is sorted out,I am a Felix person as you might have been able to pick up & hardly any biscuit,that I give in very small quantity just as a bit of a treat but as for teeth sorry may be naughty but don't do anything special about them just have a quick look now & again.China RIP went to her little grave at 13 with perfect teeth & she ate hardly any biscuit as she prefered the wet so carry on doing what is best for you & Willow,good xmas coming up in your house...xxx

{{HUGS}}

Candes, she has got the best momma, bruders and sistas that love her unconditionally.

I have found that my boys didn't really learn much about chewing before the vet pointed out their bad gums at only 8 months. Since then I have been "teaching" them to chew and build up their jaws. One great treat is beef jerky sold for dogs. Really gets them chewing away; the objective not being to act as natural cleaning but to get them to build up their jaw muscles and the habit. So far, so good.

Candes no problem i could feel your pain and frustration and agreed no-one can fault your dedication to your furry's :) the breeder we got willow from just kept feeding her RC36 even tho it was going straight thru her ,she was very boney when we got her and going off the weight comparison charts she was weighing under the lightest at same age ,she is still a little behind but is filling out now ,but at times i could of put my head in my hands and cry especially during the blood in poo problems ...

thanks for advice on possible chew's ,chicken wings and the jerky sound a good option :)

Hopefully in time as her lilttle belly matures i can be a bit more adventuress in her diet ,but for now im so happy to see her enjoying her food and her stomach working as it should

Thank you for your very reassuring thread. I think we are turning a corner here as I mentioned in quass' thread but all tips and tricks for runny bum are most welcome.

Nutriplus gel added to basket at Amazon and the Felix Kitten I had in a bag to donate will now be unpacked.

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Originally Posted by candes

Almost forgot, there is science diet dental kibble too for others that may have cats with gingivitis. But I would honestly never suggest science diet. But what you feed is your option.

And at one time, humans didn't brudh their teeth either. It was "not natural" obviously since nature didn't invent the toothbrush. :LOL:

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Well, I agree with you about Science Diet.

Of course, toothbrushes do not grow on trees and are not found in nature, and are not 'natural'.
But I'm not interested in whether something is natural or not.
The fact is, most cats will be pretty horrified by having their teeth brushed.
And they are not actually humans, no matter how many human-like characteristics they have, so you can't rationalise to them what you are trying to do.

So giving them something to chew is a good alternative.

Hi Grace, here's some more advice on chews.

If you’re uneasy with feeding bone, or if Willow doesn’t take to chomping on wings right away, chicken gizzards (stomachs) are an excellent alternative. They are quite tough and most cats will commit murder for them. When mine are munching on them I can clearly hear their teeth ripping and tearing through the meat. It sounds very much like a person eating an apple!
My crew also go crazy for raw chicken necks. I always smash them with a hammer (the necks that is, lol) for easier eating.

Other chewing options are chunks of beef (not steak but the kind you use in a stew) and horse meat (but I understand the latter is something of a taboo subject in some cultures).

As other people already have said, by no means revert back to kibble or any other dry stuff even if it is marketed as dental-this or dental-that. They do not work (source: both my vets). In particular, stay away from the Hill’s t/d. It is cr*p (source: a quick glance at the ingredient label).

Good luck!
Anna

Just to insert my perspective; I have been having problems with soft stools and runny bums for a while. I have been trying to eliminate (pun not intended!) individuals foods one by one. The boys are now on white fish, HiLife kitten (leftover pounces) and Animonda Von Felstein Deluxe dry food and for the last few days all is well. I think the tinned food is still too rich for them en masse so later this week I am going to go back to it but in much reduced potions and rely on the boys grazing as much dry as they like. If that works I will slowly build it up, but it does seem that too much "high quality" (i.e. grain free German and Swedish food) is too much for them for now.

I have a whole range of other dries (large kibble and normal) to slowly try them on but I will be taking a much more steady, slow approach from now on - at least a week to move from one to another. And the same with the tins. I must buy more than a weeks worth of a single flavour though :)

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Originally Posted by Peter Galbavy

I think the tinned food is still too rich for them en masse so later this week I am going to go back to it but in much reduced potions and rely on the boys grazing as much dry as they like. If that works I will slowly build it up, but it does seem that too much "high quality" (i.e. grain free German and Swedish food) is too much for them for now.

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I agree - we got our 3 'settled' on Felix and high quality dry (Origen and Taste of the Wild) - then out of the blue the 2 girls get soft or runny poo. Manage to get them back to normal (Hill i/d and prokolin), get them back on their usual diet then a few months later one of them gets it again!! So I've come to the same conculsion - high quality food seems to be a bit too rich for them at times!

Quick update ,willow has now been on an all wet diet of bozita for the last week ,with the odd boiled chicken thigh each day and a blob of nutri plus gel ,she is doing text book poo's half the ammount she was doing before & once a day with little to no smell ,her coat is looking great and she is full of beans .....

Next step a raw chcken wing for her to get her teeth into today ,will let you know how that works :)

A very happy Grace & willow

Wow i have a lot to learn! I didnt kno cats cld eat raw chicken and meat. I thought
that stuff cld mk them get worms and be really sick.
i want my baby boy to be a big healthy boy. I feed him purina kitten chow
Dry. And also a can of wet food each day. Wt else should i be giving him?
Any and all ideas are appreciated :)

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Originally Posted by pouncysmom

Wow i have a lot to learn! I didnt kno cats cld eat raw chicken and meat. I thought
that stuff cld mk them get worms and be really sick.
i want my baby boy to be a big healthy boy. I feed him purina kitten chow
Dry. And also a can of wet food each day. Wt else should i be giving him?
Any and all ideas are appreciated :)

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My cats have been on an exclusively raw meat diet for about one year now. It hasn't given them worms and it hasn't made them sick. In fact they are in much better shape than they were before. :)

If you are looking for more info, there is a subforum on raw feeding in the nutrition section.

Take care, :)
Anna

Well it took willow all of 0.3 sec's to work out the chicken wing was food , followed by 15mins of chucking it in the air, purring, scooting it around the floor before it was chewed to bits ,to say she enjoyed it would be an understatment ,think i've given it to her at just the right time as could hear a crunchy noise as she was eating her meal last nite and looks like she is breaking in her adult teeth ,altho when i looked in her mouth it looked like a T-rex had come along and swapped his teeth for her's i hope she grows into them or shes going to look like a crocodile :)

Willow says thanks Howlinbob was an excellent bit of advice :)
oh nearly forgot to ask but how often should i give her a wing every other day ok ?

Grace&willow

Hey, well done to Elmo and Willow! Isn't it wonderful to see them enjoying their food so much.
Sounds like she's growing an impressive set of new teeth, hopefully this will keep them sparkling!

A chicken wing every other day is OK, I think. I give mine once or twice a week, but they are mostly raw fed so they get lots of chewy chunks as well.

How about a picture of Willow? xxx

Well done Willow! Isn't it fun to see them give their food flying lessons before tucking in, lol.

Re your question about how often to give her a wing... it may sound weird but you need to look at the poo. If the color gets too light it means she gets too much bone which might lead to constipation. If necessary you can replace some of the wing with tough meat for chews.

Ok thanks folks ,will try a couple of times a week to start with and see how that goes ,but yeh watching her have so much fun with food was a great feeling she must of spent 3 hours ripping and chomping on it , fingers crossed it doesnt upset her stomach

I'm putting a few pics of her togeather now howlinbob and will post in members gallery :)

pics added :)

Thanks for the pics, Elmo, wow Willow is a beauty! What a lovely face she's got, bet she's great fun to have around xxx.

Hi all

quick question re giving chicken wings - are they safe to be left on their own to eat them ( once they get used to the idea?) Mine are fed in their run and would like to keep the food out there so they dont get confused ... thanks

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Originally Posted by H&SWells

quick question re giving chicken wings - are they safe to be left on their own to eat them ( once they get used to the idea?)

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Good question. Most people I know who feed raw, including myself, prefer to keep on eye on them when they eat bone. Although mine have never had problems with things like choking or bone getting stuck between teeth, I still feel easier if I monitor them.

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Originally Posted by H&SWells

Mine are fed in their run and would like to keep the food out there so they dont get confused

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You mean you don't want them to confuse their food with yours? :LOL:

lol.. not really ..just that they know that is where food is and they run there for their meals

Thx Bob ,i do love the tabby's ,& she is so bloody naughty but so forgiveable ,chicken wing upset her tummy a little but will keep working with the raw wings each week ,the OH has agreed once she has been neutered after xmas that we can look for a companion for her WHIEEEEEEE ! ,only problem typical bloke he wants a male and wants one the size of a german shepard ,will have to ask some advice on forum of breeders in Uk soon :)

Happy xmas everyone
grace& willow xx