Thread: Snip. Snip. Snip!

Originally Posted by Howlinbob

It's a no-brainer.

That pretty much sums up what one must have "upstairs" to ignore the potentially lethal pathogens that are found in much raw meat.

While I said that I believed raw meat is better than canned for cats teeth, this does not mean I think raw is a replacement for tooth brushing. Brushing takes 1-2 minutes per cat each day. That is not easy? We spend way more time on grooming.

As a friend pointed out, her cats never had problems with their teeth or gums, but they were free range cats that also caught, and ate, lots of mice, voles and the like.

PS Back on "ginger" track, here is a pic of two of the boys not wanting to leave their carrier as it's too comfy - this is today, 24 hours after coming home:

Belly rubs & kisses to them both,bless x

Originally Posted by Peter Galbavy

As a friend pointed out, her cats never had problems with their teeth or gums, but they were free range cats that also caught, and ate, lots of mice, voles and the like.

PS Back on "ginger" track, here is a pic of two of the boys not wanting to leave their carrier as it's too comfy - this is today, 24 hours after coming home:

Aww sweet, is the one on the right praying for more leg room

Forgot to mention that we have also tried the chlorhexidine rinses (you squirt these in their mouths) and a couple of water additives. Most of the cats didn't like the chlorhexidine rinses, and the vet dental specialist said that brushing with the enzyme toothpastes does more good. We tried a couple of the water additives, but none of the cats really liked the changed flavor so wouldn't drink, and they aren't usable in the fountains. I was also concerned about the safety of the primary effective ingredient. As I recall, while it is clearly safe for dogs, whether it is completely safe for cats did not seem to have been conclusively established.

Mine have a mixture of Felix / Whiskers and dry food, but also get some raw turkey mince, the odd bought from exotic pet shop as smake food mouse, and raw beef a few times a week. Chicken wings were ignored but give then a drumstick and its gone. Feral cats live happily on raw caught meat and never see a dentist or vet. Big cats eat raw meat. Anyone fancy feeding a lion on Canned food? Its still a cat! Feeding your cat is as personal as being a meat eater or veggie yourself. For as long as we all have happy, healthy pets does it really matter?

Love and hugs to the cubs Peter xxx

Originally Posted by NCarver

Forgot to mention that we have also tried the chlorhexidine rinses (you squirt these in their mouths) and a couple of water additives. Most of the cats didn't like the chlorhexidine rinses, and the vet dental specialist said that brushing with the enzyme toothpastes does more good. We tried a couple of the water additives, but none of the cats really liked the changed flavor so wouldn't drink, and they aren't usable in the fountains. I was also concerned about the safety of the primary effective ingredient. As I recall, while it is clearly safe for dogs, whether it is completely safe for cats did not seem to have been conclusively established.

Since 2006 this has been labelled not suitable for cats so wtf are you recommending? It has been shown both in uk and us to have negative, and possibly fatal effects on cats. Known side effects included respiratory probs, and since 2006, following research at Dakota Uni this chemical disinfectant has carried the warning of not suitable for cats. Uk research is even worse, but will stick with the usa stuff for it proves the same. What you suggest is harmful, and kills cats, MCs are very vulnerable to the associated heart probs. If a Vet recommended they need reporting

Originally Posted by catslave

Since 2006 this has been labelled not suitable for cats so wtf are you recommending? ... What you suggest is harmful, and kills cats,...

0.1% chlorhexidine oral rinses are sold and recommended by many vets in the US and Europe, and are marketed by numerous pet product companies for both dogs and cats. If you had searched for just a minute you could easily have seen that before you posted something alarmist and almost certainly incorrect. I was unable to find any indication of problems/concerns with these dental rinses other than the possibility of allergic side effects in some animals, and they most certainly are NOT "labelled not suitable for cats." Kills cats? I really have to ask, WTF are you talking about??

Here is a page for one such product from Virbac/CET:
Amazon.com: C.E.T. 0.12% Chlorhexidine Cats & Dogs Mouth Rinse 8 oz: Kitchen & Dining
and another brand:
Cat dental care: Dental Cleanser & Dental Sponges for Cats at Drs. Foster & Smith

After a fair bit of googling, I found this:
Post-Surgical Respiratory Distress In Cats Associated With Chlorhexidine Surgical Scrubs
This is discussing a completely different use of chlorhexidine, involves a concentration 20 times that of the oral rinses, and the possibility of significant exposure from cleaning large body areas. I was unable to find hits for any additional reports or studies in the intervening 15 years, so I would be interested in you posting some links to support the factual information that you claim to know. The above report involves very limited data and a great deal of uncertainty, so is of virtually no value. It also involved no deaths. Let's see some proof that chlorhexidine kills cats (though if it is topical chlorhexidine, this would not be directly relevant to the oral rinses).

Oh, yes, and chlorhexidine being used to clean ears has been associated with deafness, if it was able to migrate into the inner ear due to a perforated eardrum, etc. Again, though, not in any way relevant to chlorhexidine oral rinses and not involving death.

Also, I came across this interesting document on stomatitis during my searching:
http://www.dentalvets.co.uk/download...-FCGS-2010.pdf
from this UK vet dental specialists site:
Welcome to DentalVets

And what does the stomatitis document say? "...follow by aggressive home care with 0.12% chlorhexidine gluconate gel twice daily. (Parodongyl: Virbac)."

Guess you had better report these UK vet dental specialists!

Originally Posted by elismom

Isn't it ironic that someone who becomes apoplectic about a dental rinse doesn't give a second thought to feeding raw meat to their cats? I suppose they didn't bother to google that either...

I find the snide and sarcastic tone of this post rather shocking.
The discussion about the safety of a dental rinse has nothing to do with raw feeding.
Could it be that Elismom is so vehemently opposed to raw that she is setting out to rubbish anyone who says they feed raw, for any reason?
There may be people who are feeding raw but dare not mention it for fear of this kind of persecution.
Raw feeding is not a guilty secret - it is a valid choice for many pet owners, whatever one's personal thoughts on the matter.

Originally Posted by NCarver

That pretty much sums up what one must have "upstairs" to ignore the potentially lethal pathogens that are found in much raw meat.

While I said that I believed raw meat is better than canned for cats teeth, this does not mean I think raw is a replacement for tooth brushing. Brushing takes 1-2 minutes per cat each day. That is not easy? We spend way more time on grooming.

Well, I knew you would rise to the bait - in your own inimitable style.