Poor Monty... peeing probs / cystitis

For some days I’d noticed our Monty making more frequent toilet visits than usual. As he didn’t act the least bit unwell I initially dismissed it as insignificant. But this morning I didn’t trust it any longer, especially when I saw he only produced a few drops which were an orange-y color!
So I immediately called the vet. She told us not to bring him in at once, but first keep him for an hour inside a locked carrier with no blanket. That way, he should have a full bladder and with any luck would even pee inside the carrier so she'd have a sample. No such luck though. Poor little guy just sat there patiently, big golden eyes staring through the mesh door at little Minnie who kept him company on the other side.
When we finally arrived at the vet’s and she examined him, she could feel no full bladder. And no obstruction either, thankfully! She suspected cystitis and we took our little fellow home together with a bag full of pills and potions: antibiotics, something to relax his bladder, and a painkiller fluid. We also got a bag of plastic grains to put in his litter tray, so we can collect a pee sample for bringing in early next week.

Luckily hubby is quite adept at popping pills (into the cats’ mouths I mean), and with the aid of some generous dollops of butter he got the first batch of medicine inside El Monto who was being a very good and brave boy about it all. After that we treated him to ‘Swill’ (a small can of Gourmet mixed with water for extra fluid). Tomorrow I’ll cook some fish in lots of water and give it a whizz in the Magimix to make Fish Swill for him.
The vet said he’ll need lots of fluid for the time being. Of course we all too gladly indulge him… but it’s a drag trying to keep the girls from stealing Monty’s share of the Swill! We hate feeding them separately – the one time we ever tried it they went all Bolshie… it was like Mutiny on the Bounty.:irate:

An interesting thing though… I have been reading up on the web about cystitis in cats and found out cats with cystitis often don’t act as if they are ill! So now I’ve learned to take any unusual toilet behaviour very seriously.

And a second thing I’ve learned: I am going to abandon the ‘mostly dry food’ rule. Especially now that all three our Coonies are approaching adulthood, and I was planning to stop feeding kitten kibble soon anyway. Dry food may be good because MCs are supposed to be prone to gum disease, but I understand it also raises the risk of bladder problems. So I am going to try to work out a diet which (a) is 50:50 dry:wet, (b) gives them enough to chew on, (c) agrees with their tummies, and of course (d) they like the taste of. :LOL:
Suggestions are welcome. :winkwink:

Definitely one of the worries particularly in male cats...at least you don't appear to have gotten to the blockage stage.

The other thing I would suggest trying if you do not already have it is a cat water fountain. Three of ours definitely drink more water since we got them (one never ever uses either of our two fountains, however).

We also have one cat that eats primarily dry food, despite all attempts to tempt her with various canned foods and cooked meats. We just monitor her water intake as best we can (she regularly drinks from one of the fountains).

Oh dear poor Monty!

We had a beautiful white moggy called Sylvester a few years back who was prone to cystitis. The vet said it is more common in male cats (as opposed to female humans!) I remember the vet placing a receptacle on the table and 'expressing' Sylvester's bladder into it - and nearly filling it! Poor lad. I think you can get a prescription dry food which is especially for cystitis-prone cats - I think it has extract of cranberry in it, or some such thing, for 'urinary tract health'. No idea if it works. But I think your idea of 50-50 wet/dry will help.

By the way, love your nickname of El Monto!
Now our lads are a bit older, they have calmed down slightly, so we don't really call them the Criminals any more. Instead, we call them the Beastie Boys! OH is a fan and it makes us laugh...

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Originally Posted by candes

No suggestions. But I hope Monty gets better soon! The poor baby! You know come to think of it, I did read that kitties don't drink enough water when eating dry food. That is why drinking fountains are suggested. And the new thinking about leaning towards more canned food in their diets. And less dependance on dry.

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We used to have a fountain earlier on. But we had to clean the pump almost daily because it got awfully slimy… some kind of algae presumably. And when Monty developed nasty diarrhoea we decided to bin the fountain … just to rule out possible causes.

I also got a tip from the vet’s assistant to get them to drink more. Defrost some frozen fish or prawns in the drinking bowl. Which I am doing right now. As soon as the temperature is right I’ll put that bowl out (with the prawns still in it, of course).

BTW, how is your cold? Better, I hope.

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Originally Posted by Antonia

We used to have a fountain earlier on. But we had to clean the pump almost daily because it got awfully slimy… some kind of algae presumably. And when Monty developed nasty diarrhoea we decided to bin the fountain … just to rule out possible causes.

I also got a tip from the vet’s assistant to get them to drink more. Defrost some frozen fish or prawns in the drinking bowl. Which I am doing right now. As soon as the temperature is right I’ll put that bowl out (with the prawns still in it, of course).

BTW, how is your cold? Better, I hope.

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Just make sure they drink more...

I have lost in the past 4 stud boys, to this, you have to be sooo careful.


Debbie

@Louisa - I have also read about cranberry being beneficial. I will have to find out if it's OK to feed such foods to the girls as well. If it means feeding Monty separately I'm afraid it will be very difficult.

The nickname of El Monto stuck because he has such a Latin-like macho-ness about him. The way he looks, the expression on his face, the way he struts around the place... even his voice... they all spell: "I am Don Monty, El Presidente! I rule! The buck stops with me!"
Which is utterly deceiving 'cause he's a big sweet fluffy Pansy who lets the girls steal his food and box his ears.:rofl:

Whenever I have time - and others have time to listen - I'll explain why Minnies nickname is Crobi Wan Kenobi. :koolkat:

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Originally Posted by debbie560

Just make sure they drink more...

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Dankjewel / Thanks Debbie, I am going to watch it very carefully in future!

Poor Monty,very unpleasant time for him,better cystitis though than stones.
Working for a vet from "The old school"I have always been very wary of dried food,never had the number of problems with cats suffereing from cystitis pre the dried food era,some seem to cause problems more than others...We used to find our fountain seemed to go slimey & needed cleaning out frequently but stuck with it because we knew by how the water dropped daily that it was being well used,not only for drinking,have come up with a good remedy to prevent it though,since there has been six cats using it the slime side has disappeared ! We assume it is because for most of the day there is one cat or another at it,alongside big bowls of water as well.If Monty will eat tinned food give him one of the cheaper jelly ones,lots of jelly equates to lot of fluid intake.....along with his prawns in water of course ! I would keep him well away from dry for a little while anyway & although mine don't have much dried food in their diet they are given Hills Oral a couple of times a week,its a really large kibble & I actually count out the number of biscuits I allow each cat,how sad is that,I also make sure that the magnesium content in any of their dry is no higher than 0.08% although Hills is good because it is normally 0.07%,another whim from a vet of the old school !
Hope he is soon feeling a lot better.

I don't have a water fountain, just a big ceramic dog bowl of water, and between the 3 of them I top it up every other day. Still, I don't actually know if they are drinking enough, so I add water to their food when I can. If I am cooking them some fish or meat, I add water to the pan and when it's cooked, I let it all cool down and serve the cooking water with the food. They have something like this once a day. Sounds a bit like your fish swill! Except I don't whizz it up. They've had no problems so far, but they are only young...hopefully this will be OK for them.

Hope El Presidente is back to strutting his stuff very soon! xxx

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Originally Posted by jckkerrison

Working for a vet from "The old school"I have always been very wary of dried food,

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Yes, I think I am coming round to the ‘old school’ philosophy as well. Hill’s Oral is on top of my list to try as dry food. For canned food I will have to find out what they like and what agrees with their tummies. They love Whiskas and it doesn’t give them the squits, but I am not sure about the nutritional value.

How exactly did you prevent the fountain from getting slimy? I’d gladly cash out for a new one if I knew.

Monty has been quietly dozing for a couple of hours. Then I gave him some Prawn Swill, while hubby and I frantically tried to keep the girls away – they got their own bowls but the little minxes insisted on helping themselves out of Monty’s. He just lets them, he’s such a wuss. After that battle Montyman went to the loo… I snuck after him and boldly lifted his tail (yep, sad lot we are) and saw he’d produced a rather nice amount of pee… not yet a tsunami but significantly more than this morning! YAY!

I just think we were lucky that when more cats started drinking from it that it seemed as if it kept everything flowing more & didn't clog up so easy,not the cheapest way though of doing it,wouldn't recommend you bought six furries just in case it didn't work for you..
If your cats are fine with Whiskas I wouldn't worry about that being their main source of food,as I have put in other threads mine have been brought up on tinned Felix,even the babes although they did have a vitamin suplement for the first few months,I have had no growth or health worries with any of them,I think companies play on the fact that we all try to go that extra mile for our pets now a days but not always to the best advantage for them,never used to get obese cats & dogs but now it is one of the biggest problems we have which in turn causes other health problems that once were rarely seen,if you could compare the contents of one of the cheaper meats to that of a little mouse or bird I don't think you would find that you are giving them a lot less goodness...!
So pleased that Monty has had a fairly good pee,shows that your ways of getting fluid in is working, keep it going.....! More prawn swill ? The girls are just going to luv his misfortune...x

We have a water fountain, the washing up bowl in the utility room and two more water bowls. All of ours, particularly Hobbes, seem to adore water and drink copious amounts. The biggest problem with the fountain that we have found is that clumping cat litter tends to clog and cloud the bowl and the mat that the whole contraption sits on - we had run out of our duck & goose crumb litter and had to wait for it to come in.

Poor Monty - hope he is soon back to his normal self!

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Originally Posted by Antonia

How exactly did you prevent the fountain from getting slimy? I’d gladly cash out for a new one if I knew.
!

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Hah! Wash them every 3-4 days. Disassemble the pumps in particular. I have run one through the dishwasher (not the pump), and have also used rubbing alcohol and dilute bleach to try to kill the nasty looking stuff that will grow on them. Seriously, I was each of our two out twice a week. It is a big pain in the butt! However, they definitely encourage three of our four to drink more water. The fourth prefers water bowls in a couple of sinks.

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Originally Posted by NCarver

Hah! Wash them every 3-4 days. Disassemble the pumps in particular.

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We did that even more frequent than that at some point... still got the slimy stuff.:grr:

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Originally Posted by candes

Tap water has chlorine in it.

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Not in Holland... over here tap water is disinfected with ozone, UV and membrane filters.
But we did use to clean the fountain pump with bleach (=chlorine)... perhaps that was what caused the problem.

When I disinfect anything of the cats I always use Milton,safe for babies so....! We change the water daily in the fountain,what is left of it,but as we have water softner fitted {hard stuff around here} I think that does help anyway but where as we were stripping it right down a couple of times a week with the added use it has been reduced to complete overhaul every 10 to 14 days,quick wipe round dome & bowl othertimes,also thinking about it we went from clump litter to the chick pellets about the same time,could this also be something to do with it because the grey litter is slimey when wet & the darlings always have to stir before drinking,perhaps I don't need six furries after all to make life easier with the water fountain,now which ones bags are going to be packed to go & sit up on the bypass & hope someone feels sorry for them.....!
Hope we soon hear some more good news about Monty.

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Originally Posted by jckkerrison

Hope we soon hear some more good news about Monty.

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Thanks jck... we’ve been out for part of the day, so I haven’t been able to monitor his peeing. I heard him scurrying in the downstairs litter box earlier, but when I got down there he had already buried whatever he’d deposited. But he certainly seems well enough… he’s relaxed, not agitated, has an appetite. I’ve put extra drinking bowls in various places around the kitchen with different kinds of fluids such as water with a tiny bit of milk and fish cooking water. But so far Monty hasn’t paid particular attention to them (and neither have the girls, much to my surprise).

This afternoon we popped into the local pet shop for wet food. We bought Gourmet mousse and Whiskas sachets with fish in jelly. With the Gourmet came a scratch card and we won a cream blanket with gold trimming… which is of course very befitting for El Presidente! He thought so as well and immediately claimed it as his personal blankie. Here are some pics of him on it, sleeping off a copious Fish Swill luncheon.

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Originally Posted by jckkerrison

now which ones bags are going to be packed to go & sit up on the bypass & hope someone feels sorry for them.....!

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Okay... just let me know on which bypass you'll drop Merlyn and his bags off and I'll be there.:LOL:

I love the last picture of him fast asleep & his paw tucked under,makes you want to give it a kiss,as you say he looks very relaxed on his new cream blanket with gold trimming,really befits a MC,some good came from his misfortune....Fingers crossed he is on the up now.
Merlyn is laying on the cat tower with a couple of his favourite cuddly toys,he does come with a fair bit of extra baggage in the furry toy department,not good for the street cred but thats him,still want that one.....!

I am pleased that your novel cat cordial is working and he seems to be feeling better, not to mention looking very comfy on the new fleece bless him. After a few conversations with various vets I came to the conclusion that a mix of wet and dry was best. The general thought was that a dry only diet gs not the best thyroid and stones were mentioned as two of the problems so we feed wet three times a day and kibble is down all day for them to eat as and when. We too have a cat it fountain so they never run out of water but as they do drink lots we are still trying to find a litter that works the best for us as two mcs who pee lots need the whole tray clearing out every other day! Natures best looks like unbaked shortbread in the bottom of the tray! I had to call Hagen a couple of weeks ago and while I was on to them I asked what can I use to descale it with (damm hard water area) and they said equal parts water and vinegar and soak for half an hour, the only problem with that is that Roxy sits on the mat telling me to get a move on and put it back she really panics when its moved so I have to speed clean the thing to shut her up!

Hi all, just wanted to tell you that last night El Monto woke up after a sound sleep on his new presidential blanky. He stretched, all arched back and fluffy tail, yawned (rather, threw the corn stable doors wide open), and jumped down on the floor where he sat for a moment looking up at me, muttering (don’t know what he said but I fancy it was about how pretty and comfy his new blanky is). Then he hobbled up the stairs to the litter box. Of course I dashed after him. As I was sitting on my knees peering into the box (I wonder what they make of it when we do that) I was sooo relieved to hear a lovely gushing sound and see him deftly burying a great big wet patch! Phew!:satisfied:

He still doesn’t go for the water/milk mix. Leaves it for little Minnie to lap up. I am going to try some rice water, it’s cooling off right now.

And we found out cheese spread works even better for popping pills than butter. It sticks better to the pill and he loves it! He’s such a good boy.:satisfied:

Thanks for all your advice and sympathy!:nod:

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Originally Posted by Helen & John

the only problem with that is that Roxy sits on the mat telling me to get a move on and put it back she really panics when its moved so I have to speed clean the thing to shut her up!

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You might want to get a second tray which she can use while the other one is drying. More cleaning (it's a drag, I know), but less panicking.:winkwink:

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Originally Posted by jckkerrison

I love the last picture of him fast asleep & his paw tucked under,makes you want to give it a kiss

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Yes, don't they look adorable when sleeping like that?:smile:

So glad that the problem has cleared up - and quickly. And he got a free blanket, how cool is that? Love your pictures of him snuggled down on it!

Non cat or dog owners would laugh at our obsession with the 'rear end', but it's a clear indicator of health issues, as we all know, so actually it's quite sensible, and not weird at all, really. (ever had that argument with anyone??)

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Originally Posted by Howlinbob

Non cat or dog owners would laugh at our obsession with the 'rear end', but it's a clear indicator of health issues, as we all know, so actually it's quite sensible, and not weird at all, really. (ever had that argument with anyone??)

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Well, not really any arguments... but perhaps that’s because I usually keep my trap tightly shut about ‘rear end’ business when in the company of non pet owners.
But a few weeks ago we had a friend over for drinks. He doesn’t particularly like cats – he is always very honest about that, but also polite enough to comment on how laid-back and friendly our Coonies are. However, he is mad about these little lapdogs – Maltese, I think – and seriously considering getting one. So I used some shock tactics on him. I told him about how Monty used to have diarrhoea when he was younger and I had to clean his bum and breeches daily with a cloth soaked in water and baby soap. He went somewhat green around the nose and I could see him thinking: “Eeewwww!”
Of course, I told him that once you have animals of your own, nothing grosses you out. Not sure if it reassured him though.:devil:

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Originally Posted by Antonia

Well, not really any arguments... but perhaps that’s because I usually keep my trap tightly shut about ‘rear end’ business when in the company of non pet owners.
But a few weeks ago we had a friend over for drinks. He doesn’t particularly like cats – he is always very honest about that, but also polite enough to comment on how laid-back and friendly our Coonies are. However, he is mad about these little lapdogs – Maltese, I think – and seriously considering getting one. So I used some shock tactics on him. I told him about how Monty used to have diarrhoea when he was younger and I had to clean his bum and breeches daily with a cloth soaked in water and baby soap. He went somewhat green around the nose and I could see him thinking: “Eeewwww!”
Of course, I told him that once you have animals of your own, nothing grosses you out. Not sure if it reassured him though.:devil:

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Hah, we had two Maltese until not that long ago (the female lived to be 18!). I can tell you that keeping their butts clean was no less work than the cats. I remember one long car trip during the winter where both developed the big D. I would be standing outside in the miserable wind and snow watching them make a mess of themselves and then have to use napkins and tissues to try to clean them up as best as possible before they came back in the car with us. One of the most miserable car trips ever. It was a 13 hour drive that took more like 20 hours as I recall due to all the stopping for the dogs (they were young puppies).

Heheh, that's a great story NCarver... I will pass it on to my friend! :winkwink:

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Originally Posted by NCarver

Hah, we had two Maltese until not that long ago (the female lived to be 18!). I can tell you that keeping their butts clean was no less work than the cats. I remember one long car trip during the winter where both developed the big D. I would be standing outside in the miserable wind and snow watching them make a mess of themselves and then have to use napkins and tissues to try to clean them up as best as possible before they came back in the car with us. One of the most miserable car trips ever. It was a 13 hour drive that took more like 20 hours as I recall due to all the stopping for the dogs (they were young puppies).

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Ewww, that sounds horrendous!!! Hope they made up for it in personality!

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Originally Posted by Howlinbob

Ewww, that sounds horrendous!!! Hope they made up for it in personality!

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They were great fun until they got so old. The last two years with the female were pretty trying unfortunately.

Here is a photo of her and Remy shortly after we got him at about four months:

Can I make a suggestion if you're still looking for a good wet food? Have you tried Bozita? Its available online at Zooplus and is a food which has a high meat content (rather than lots of bulkers and other nasties). It did give my three the squits at first but I think I was a bit over-enthusiastic and introduced it too quickly. They all scoff it down now and nothing ever gets thrown away. Carny is another one worth a try. Bozita is 'chunks' and Carny is more of a 'pate' type food. Just depends on your cats preference? :smile:

Thanks for the suggestion Wendy. But I've already tried Bozita. The girls were OK with it, but poor Monty had persistent diarrhoea on it. :sad2:

Just when I thought Monty was doing so well! BANG... this morning he was constantly in and out of the litter box again! Obviously agitated and peeing only a few blood-stained drops.

Phoned the vet. The she-vet was on duty and said: “Out of the cat comes pee, however little, and into the cat goes medicine… so right now there isn’t much I can do. If he doesn’t get better over the weekend, come back Monday and we’ll do an X-ray to see if he has a stone. In the meantime, keep up the meds and give him all he can drink.”

Which we’re doing right now. Luckily the local supermarket has canned tuna on offer, so hubby returned with a big shopping bag full of cans. (I’ll have to find some new tuna recipes for us.) And we got a new drinking fountain. We’ll just take the slime cleaning for granted. All three Coonies were fascinated when we plugged it in, but they haven’t drunk from it yet.

Thankfully Montyman acts his normal cheerful self, the only time he appears uncomfortable is when in the litter box. Right now he’s in front of the telly with little Minnie watching a cat DVD. You'd think there was nothing wrong with him.

But I am feeling very gloomy. And concerned. Why did his symptoms return?
I am not easy with this.:sad2:

Oh dear poor Monty! Just when you thought things were improving. I hope he picks up over the weekend. At this rate it looks like an X-ray on Monday. But at least El Monto is himself, so try not to be too down! xx

I would have thought the least she could have done was just had Monty in to check his bladder even if she then said there was nothing to worry about & see how things went over the weekend.Is there a surgery tomorrow morning where you go if so if he hasn't had a good pee by then I think I would get him checked again even more so if there is still blood,if you do have to go just ask them for a syringe & get them to show you how to give fluids in the mouth,could be that he does need a good fluid intake to flush everything through,our vet always automatically gives clients who have cats with cystitis a syringe & tell them how much fluid he wants them to try & get in the first day to help,thing is if you are going to be putting it in you want to be sure it is coming out.....

Really sorry to hear he's still struggling, especially as it was looking so promising. No wonder you're feeling gloomy but take heart by the fact that he's okay in himself, that must be a good sign. I think Jackie's right about the vets tomorrow if it's an option, and if you can pop him let us know how it goes. Will be thinking of you and Monty.

Hello all, thanks once more for your advice and sympathy. I really appreciate it.

El Monto still acts like he’s fine. Yesterday evening, while hubby was scooping out one of the litter boxes, Monty jumped in (they all do that over here, they have no shame) and produced a pee the size of a walnut. Still not much but rather more than earlier on. And this morning he hasn’t been nervously going to an fro the litter box… so we are keeping our fingers crossed.
He eats well and drinks like a fish from the tuna-tin water. He is curious and playful as always, pushing open and shut every door in the house, following me into the bathroom and attacking the shower curtain while I’m showering, chasing and catching the clothes I’m trying to put on… in short, the normal daily Monty-routine.:LOL:

@Jackie – There is a backup surgery nearby for emergencies during the weekend, so if needed we can always bring him in. But the way things are looking now I don’t think it is necessary. I have thought about using a syringe – we have one in the house. But I want to keep Monty’s stress levels as low as possible… I have read a couple of times that stress can aggravate cystitis. Don’t know how reliable that information is, but I’d rather take no chances.

@Candes – Thanks for the tip about the antibiotic. I looked it up… it is broad-spectrum.
The vet told us about the signs of a blockage: lethargy, going off his food, etc. If that happens we’ll have to rush him to the emergency clinic. But as long as he is not showing any of these signs I don’t want to break up his daily routine and put him through the stress of yet another car ride and another examination by an unfamiliar vet.

Again, many thanks for your interest. I’ll keep you posted.

I thought about Monty several times at work this morning especially with the ones that had been seen in the last few days & were not due in again until next week but the owners were worried about leaving them until then,a couple were false alarms but one wasn't & thats the one it is all about. I know stress can cause cystitis but also you have to get a good flow of fluid through to clean the bladder plus make it start wanting to work properly again,I still wonder if Monty had got a good fluid imput through in the first place
wether it would have helped him more,its the same as with us,if you get cystitis it is fluid,fluid & more fluid,something had already caused it so I don't think putting fluid in by syringe would have caused too much problem,as long as you put it into the side of the mouth gradually they normally take it quite easily.The thing that did worry me more was what Candes put in her post,if there is a blockage then you must not overfill the bladder.
The fact that he is happy in himself is a good sign & hopefully when he gets a good bladder full of fluid there will be a super big pee & we will hear the cheer right over here....

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Originally Posted by jckkerrison

I don't think putting fluid in by syringe would have caused too much problem,as long as you put it into the side of the mouth gradually they normally take it quite easily.

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So you think using the syringe wouldn't stress him out all that much? If so, I'll certainly give it a go.

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Originally Posted by jckkerrison

The thing that did worry me more was what Candes put in her post,if there is a blockage then you must not overfill the bladder.

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That's why we're watching him like hawks. At the slightest sign of distress, it's off to the emergency vet with him.

If you face his head away from put your spare hand acroos his head & ears & then gently squirt the fluid into the side of his mouth,the syringe goes in through the gap in his teeth & going at that angle he will swallow as it goes in,never give it straight into the front,give it a go,if he does stress then you can stop straight away,I think it is being firm but kind when you hold them that gives you the edge,if you hesitate you are lost,as the saying goes....

I don't know of a higher problem within male MC's but no doubt someone will pop up with some facts & figures,also do not know of any nutered related male problems within the breed.Like a lot of things I think this is a "Chicken versus the egg"situation & you are very often left wondering the what ifs.....