De-mating without injury

I went to my niece's wedding on Saturday and someone asked me what happened to my hands (they are covered in bite and scratch marks) I told her that I had a long haired cat that doesn't appreciate being groomed. I try and groom Simba 2 or 3 times a week. He has a very thick coat and just grooming him on top doesn't get through the thick undercoat. I've noticed just recently that he started to get matting around and under his front legs and a few days ago had a good go at getting rid of them with comb, brush, furminator and scissors. Half an hour later and covered in bites and scratches I had got all but a couple out. I am waiting for my wounds to heal before I have another go:LOL:

Has anyone any advice for an easier method of getting these out or getting Simba to actually enjoy being groomed. I have always been as gentle as possible and given him treats while grooming him but it doesn't seem to make the slightest difference. At first he treats it as a game but after a while he gets quite cross with me. I'm worried that I won't be able to keep up with the matting if he carries on like this and it will get worse.

I have thought about bathing him but think my injuries might be worse!

Hi Karena
Our old Persian cat hated the brush, so I'm very familiar with your battles.
It sounds that, despite your best efforts, Simba is just not having it.
So you're going to have to bug him in short,frequent bursts.
Get prepared with all the tools and equipment, then ask a friend to help you.
One of you gets hold of Simba, hangs on tight to the mighty paws, and the other has a go at the belly. You may only have a few minutes' window of opportunity.
Ignore the first few complaints and talk lovingly to him, but let go when he's REALLY pissed off. Then give him a treat and a big fuss (if he hasn't legged it).

If you manage this every 2 or 3 days, hopefully you won't get big knots.
If you do find a knot, my tip is forget the comb and scissors, and use some cordless beard trimmers. It's a bit like shearing a sheep, but usually they prefer it because it doesn't pull as much and it's quick.

Good luck!

Thank you both for your replies.

Candes - the sharp scissors scare me a bit because he figits so much - i use rounded end ones but the aren't very good at getting at the mats so I can understand why you use sharp scissors.

Howlinbob - The beard trimmers sound like a good idea. Having short bursts is what I am doing at the moment. He never used to get matts and doing it twice a week seemed ok but I think maybe now he is older I will have to grrom him more often like you say and keep on top of it. I can still feel a couple of largish mats under is left leg and so that is what I need to do next.

Has anyone used one of those de-matting tools bit like this one: Mikki Matt Breaker - Pet Supplies from PET SUPERMARKET the uk's #1 Online pet store

It has little blades on it to get through mats. Just wondered if it was worth ordering one. I going to look at beard trimmers now though!

I have always used a dematting comb on a couple of mine,luckily the ones that I show have never had any problems.Mine is a mikki one but I couldn't find one like it when I just looked but if you go into the pet section on Amazon there is one made by Trixie & another one by Salon,I find that because of how they hook to the side they are very easy to use,I did buy a ferminator but didn't have such good results & the coat didn't feel so good either.My daughters black cat had become a s** to groom & when you are battling with 10kg + you don't stand much chance so we got a cat Mikki muzzle put that on & with her just holding his feet gently & me with dematting comb we got on brilliantly,done it in several goes,stopped every time before he thought he had enough,done as someone else suggested & gave him treats & as he was such a good boy he had a special game as well,by the time she moved with him he was sorted but I did wonder how she would get on but she still used to muzzle him to start with & he would just lay & let her do it,now he is absolutely fine & mostly she can just groom him as normal,if he looks as if he is going to play up,muzzle on & no problems.....Good luck !

[QUOTE=jckkerrison;7734]I have always used a dematting comb on a couple of mine,luckily the ones that I show have never had any problems.Mine is a mikki one but I couldn't find one like it when I just looked but if you go into the pet section on Amazon there is one made by Trixie & another one by Salon,I find that because of how they hook to the side they are very easy to use,QUOTE]

Thanks for that - is this the one you use Mikki De-Matting Comb - Pet Supplies from PET SUPERMARKET the uk's #1 Online pet store

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Originally Posted by Howlinbob

So you're going to have to bug him in short,frequent bursts.

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That is also my tactic of choice with El Monto, Lord of the Mats.
I use a large-toothed comb to get hold of the mat and then cut it through with blunt-ended scissors. For mats that are not very thick I sometimes use the Furmaster... this is a different gadget from the Furminator... as far as I know you shouldn't use a Furminator on mats.
Usually after about 5 minutes Monty starts clawing at the comb and trying to bite it. I then try to prolong his ordeal a bit by distracting him with a toy, but at a certain point he simply bolts.
By this method, I usually manage to collect a modest heap of matted fur. The girls love to help by sneaking up on Monty and me, stealing the discarded fur and spreading it all over the living room.

Hi Karena,just got mine out to compare.....I have to say mine looks slightly more curved,more like the Trixie one but I know someone said that the design had changed a bit,couldn't get them for a little while so I don't know if they came back slightly different,would you be able to see it for yourself ? I find it is the nice rounded curve that seems to give you the dig in that you require !

I groom both of ours once / twice a week and make sure Im handing out little treats as I groom them. For the 'under the belly' bits I usually have to either chase them around a little bit or wait until they are in 'lap cat' mode. Once in lap cat mode its a simple matter for me to flip mine over and give them a decent brushing.
If I really need to attend to a spot then the best thing I can suggest is "welders gloves". Honestly, Ive yet to have any claws get through them and you can just brush away as their claws n paws go nuts on your hand :D
I also use them for playing 'catch my hand' on the cat tree.

I found the first matt in Freyja's coat, just under the front arms, at the weekend - I've not persisted with the brushing for the last two weeks - she's was cross enough with a smelly house and a small fluffy interloper and I really didn't want to push my luck. I got some good advice a couple of months ago about this very subject (distract her with a toy, get her while she's in soppy mode, get someone to help) but it takes no time at all for her to a) want to chew the comb as it's a toy that's begging to be chomped, and then b) lose her temper and get cross.

Where I come unstuck is:
1) getting OH to help should have made it easier, but he (bless his cotton socks) was hopeless; he just helped Freyja fold herself in half, successfully blocking access to the matt
2) that leaves me to 'restrain', entertain and brush at the same time, and although I'm pretty good on the multi-tasking front I still only actually have two hands; once I've dangled the toy and restrained the cat, there's no hands left for comb or scissors
3) because I have to operate on the 'one man band' system, I'm only brave enough to try scissors designed for trimming cat/dog faces and ears.
4) I can't tell where the matt stops and become skin and as I snipped away at my crumpled cat's fur I had the sickening feeling that the next chop might go through her skin

When you guys say you hold their paws, how exactly do you mean? to get under their front legs, do you get them standing on their back legs as though they're stretching upwards?

Hi Karen, I totally sympathise with your difficulties. After years of owning rescue moggies who don't take kindly to the brush, it was supposed to be much easier with a kitten, as you can 'get them used to it'. Hmm, I have found that this only goes so far, and my 2 are getting much less tolerant of the brush as they get older!

I'm nervous of using scissors for the very reason you mention - the chance you might nick their skin - ouch! When using scissors, always get a comb behind the knot, and cut up to the comb. But I don't use scissors any more - I find the cordless beard trimmers are much better. You are much less likely to nick the skin, and you don't have to pull on the knot so much, so I find the cat doesn't mind it as much, even though it makes a slight noise.

Still, you do really need a decent assistant. Any chance of training the OH??

Yes, hold them up so that they're standing on their back legs exposing the belly hair. You could hold them like this with one hand, and attack with the brush using the other hand. Obviously they won't like it, but you could at least give it a bit of a go, and hopefully keep on top of things.

I find the trickiest area is underneath the arms as this is where you would hold them whilst brushing the belly. I just wait until they're all sleepy, and then lift an arm up and get in there. Same with the back legs.

I always remember as a child, my lovely, lovely Auntie Pamela had 2 coffee Persian cats and I used to love watching her brush them. They were so docile - she got her special cat brushing apron on and plonked a cat on her lap, sprinkled a bit of talcum powder on, and brushed their neck and back, then flipped them over and brushed the belly. They would just lie there and take it. She did this every day so they never had knots! I have never known any other cat in my life be so accepting as those two.
My old Persian, Bob, was a bugger and hated the brush...

When we do a two man job we sit cat on lap with back against your body put one hand under & lock two front legs & with other hand do same with back legs,you can then stretch front up,back down,one way at a time or both together if you want them really stretched.Really hard to explain it,Shims is wondering why he is getting sat on my lap with his legs up in the air & nothing happening,its easier to do than write about .....
I never found it easy to play & do I found it better to be firm,do,they learn,then tit bits & play,but I am starting to think I am a very hard mum to my furries.....

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Originally Posted by FreyjaRoMaine

4) I can't tell where the matt stops and become skin and as I snipped away at my crumpled cat's fur I had the sickening feeling that the next chop might go through her skin

When you guys say you hold their paws, how exactly do you mean? to get under their front legs, do you get them standing on their back legs as though they're stretching upwards?

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I am worried about cutting his skin too - it is so difficult to tell where the mat ends and skin begins it makes me very nervous using scissors.
I also have to work on my own and I hold his front legs with one hand while he is lying on his back on my lap, head towards me. I manage to comb then under his arms but when it comes to getting the scissors on it you need to hands so I have to let go of his legs. I then get a two second window before he realises he is free. Also while I'm holding his front legs he bits my hands or brings his back legs up to fight me.

I am going to look into those welders gloves!!!

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Originally Posted by Howlinbob

Still, you do really need a decent assistant. Any chance of training the OH?.

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None whatsoever. Especially because I don't actually know what I'm doing either so to be fair to him, he gets barked at in a completely foreign language. Excerpt from the last attempt:
K: Hold it up
OH: Hold what up??
K: The leg, I need to get underneath
>at this point, OH lifts cat into the air so I can literally get 'underneath'<
K: No, not underneath.. underneath the leg!!
OH: Which bloody leg?
K: The left leg.
OH: Your left of my left?
K: Your left! Hurry up, she's getting really pissed off!
OH: Which leg?
K: I've just told you, the left leg. It's not rocket science!
OH: Which left?
K: YOUR LEFT!
OH: I KNOW THAT - BUT SHE'S GOT TWO BLOODY LEFT LEGS!

You get the idea.

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Originally Posted by jckkerrison

When we do a two man job we sit cat on lap with back against your body put one hand under & lock two front legs & with other hand do same with back legs,you can then stretch front up,back down,one way at a time or both together if you want them really stretched.Really hard to explain it,Shims is wondering why he is getting sat on my lap with his legs up in the air & nothing happening,its easier to do than write about .....
I never found it easy to play & do I found it better to be firm,do,they learn,then tit bits & play,but I am starting to think I am a very hard mum to my furries.....

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That's easier to visualise than you might think, including the confused look on Shims face. I'll give that a go, might be easier than the potential divorce that the other route might cause!
Hard mum... don't think so, missus.

I would luv to have been a fly on the wall with that conversation going on,lefts & rights are never going to mean the same again,thanks for sending me off to feed the furries with a smile.....
She has two left legs,great,not so good that OH was right !!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FreyjaRoMaine

K: Hold it up
OH: Hold what up??
K: The leg, I need to get underneath
>at this point, OH lifts cat into the air so I can literally get 'underneath'<
K: No, not underneath.. underneath the leg!!
OH: Which bloody leg?
K: The left leg.
OH: Your left of my left?
K: Your left! Hurry up, she's getting really pissed off!
OH: Which leg?
K: I've just told you, the left leg. It's not rocket science!
OH: Which left?
K: YOUR LEFT!
OH: I KNOW THAT - BUT SHE'S GOT TWO BLOODY LEFT LEGS!

You get the idea.

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Hahaha, that really made us chuckle, Karen! Good luck with it - you'll need it, hahaha!
:rofl:

Thanks for all the great advice. I had another go last night, just a short burst and I stopped before he got too mad. It started with him on my lap and ended with him and me on the floor - me playing with him and giving him treats with a brush or two inbetween. It seemed to go a lot better - me less stressed and Simba less cross and I managed to get another mat out.

Karen - that's conversation sounds very familiar:LOL:

Howlinbob
'I'm nervous of using scissors for the very reason you mention - the chance you might nick their skin - ouch! When using scissors, always get a comb behind the knot, and cut up to the comb. But I don't use scissors any more - I find the cordless beard trimmers are much better. You are much less likely to nick the skin, and you don't have to pull on the knot so much, so I find the cat doesn't mind it as much, even though it makes a slight noise' - I tried to put the comb behind the mat last night but Simba kept knocking it out - however does make sense and felt more comfortable with something between scissors and the skin.

Candes - I think you are right about the pointy scissors - mine are rounded end ones and it's very difficult to get in to the mat but I did manage a few snips and got the mat out by pulling it apart like you suggested - which worked well - thank you.

I'm going to do a bit each night and try and make it fun and relaxing so maybe inthe end he will start to enjoy it - here's hoping. Did get a few more bite marks on my hand last night though:smile:

My top gadget for mats/knots is a seam ripper. It is small enough to hide in your hand, just need to be careful not to 'jab' the cat (or more likely - yourself!) with it. I hold the mat gently and just 'rip' through it, working away from the skin. You can also use it to 'saw' through if you can see the sking clearly. I have never injured any of the cats with it, much safer than trying to cut anything with scissors and quite often they dont even realise what I'm doing till I've done it :LOL:

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Originally Posted by Wendy1969

My top gadget for mats/knots is a seam ripper. It is small enough to hide in your hand, just need to be careful not to 'jab' the cat (or more likely - yourself!) with it. I hold the mat gently and just 'rip' through it, working away from the skin. You can also use it to 'saw' through if you can see the sking clearly. I have never injured any of the cats with it, much safer than trying to cut anything with scissors and quite often they dont even realise what I'm doing till I've done it :LOL:

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I've seen a gadget in Pets At Home that does the same thing - it's the same principle as the gizmo Jackie mentioned but this one is small enough you can hide it in your hand. Might invest in one.

I now feel a rejuvinated sense of purpose and will set about Freyja at the weekend - as suggested, short bursts. And I like Jackie and Howlinbob's ideas for cat positions so if I relegate OH to toy dangling and treat supply, we might just get somewhere!

Hi

I use scissors myself but the breeder did tell me that they use the "quick unpick" which I think is the same as a seam cutter. I may even dig my one out of my sewing box ( from around the cobwebs as I dont sew anymore) and see if that is easier.

Zack has just starting developing a couple of knots and although he is very good if I have him upside down on my lap he starts grunting with disapproval - it is like suspense music -the grunting gets louder and more frequent the longer I muck around.

I tend to let him go before any struggling happens and continue at a later time to avoid any arguments and I seem to be able to do it for longer each time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wendy1969

My top gadget for mats/knots is a seam ripper. It is small enough to hide in your hand, just need to be careful not to 'jab' the cat (or more likely - yourself!) with it. I hold the mat gently and just 'rip' through it, working away from the skin. You can also use it to 'saw' through if you can see the sking clearly. I have never injured any of the cats with it, much safer than trying to cut anything with scissors and quite often they dont even realise what I'm doing till I've done it :LOL:

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Thanks for that tip! I have one of those and will give it a go. I tried again last night to get one last fairly large mat left on the side of his fron leg, but he wouldn't stay still and I had to give up. I am going to try again today with the seam cutters. I have also ordered a whole variety of different gadgets to de- mat:LOL:

I am I the only chic on this forum that doesn't sew??

No you are not the only one,I am right there with you.....I have seen the little gadget mentioned though & it is very good,nan was an expert with the needle !

Had another session tonight and got rid of the large mat with the use of the little seam cutter - great! He seemed to be more patient tonight and lay on my lap and let me groom him for a while until I started on the mat when he wanted to leave but with a little gentle pursasion I got him to hang in there. I have found another little one though right in his arm pit and I'm not sure how I am going to get that out because I can't get to it without holding his leg up and then I only have one hand - any suggestions? I don't know whether I missed it before or it developed in the last few days but Simba's coat has got sooooooooo thick! I have to bury down quite a way before I see skin and just brushing him only gets the top layer so it takes ages to give him a thorough brush. I think it maybe the cold weather making him grow a thicker coat? I have never seen so much fur, when he is washing himself it is almost laughable because it's so pathetic - watching his little tongue trying to work at an impossible task:LOL:

Oh and by the way I'm not a seamstress or even any good with a needle but I have had for some odd reasong the little seam cutter for ages and I'm not sure when and why I got it! I think it was when drainpipe jeans became fashionable and all my jeans were flares:smile:

Great tip about the seam cutter! I have two in my sewing box, but I've always called them 'stitch rippers'.

Yes it certainly is time for the winter coats to come on, especially if they are outside a lot.

Simba is now de matted:ecstatic: It took a while but we got there eventually. I just need to keep up with his grooming now to keep it like that. I used the seam cutter and found it very useful but also ordered some de-matting tools from the internet and one of them worked really well.

Just need to let my hands heal now:smile:

Great news, Karena - must be a relief! Tackling Freyja this weekend, but she's only got one tiny mat to deal with; just want to get her used to grooming.

Hi. When I took on Choo Choo, he had been neglected for months and was so matted from shoulder to hip that the only option was to have him shaved, leaving him with furry tail and legs and a ridge of fur over his back.

I set about grooming the fur he had left. The best tool I bought was a very small slicker brush which is really meant for small mammals. The head is only about 1" x 2" with very close wires. It is not scratchy in the least but can go right through the fur and picks up all the loose undercoat.

Now his fur has grown back and after only a few months, he loves being groomed and comes running when I show him the brush. It is small enough to get under his legs and behind his ears and he rubs his chin against it and brushes his own neck. I can also do quick brushes in sensitive spots while distracting him with cuddles and strokes.

If there are any knots now they are small and I pull them apart with my fingers. Previously for any stubborn ones I used thinning scissors to cut into the knot which loosens it and leaves less damage to the coat. Good luck.

So pleased Simba is sorted,sorry about the hands,I use the slicker brush on mine as well & they love it but I find that you still need to have a comb to get really into the base of the coat.Because Shimba has really quite short hair I have been using the slicker on him & not bothering with the comb,couldn't believe it the other day when I ran my hand down his thigh,it felt like compacted cotton wool,got the comb out & dug in & ended up with a great heap of dead fur from just one small area,poor little boy,didn't need two of us though & I didn't have to hold his front legs up....!!! All nice & sleek again,think I was hoping that at long last he was getting a coat.