Thread: Can somebody tell me if my kitten is a Maine Coon?

Having read through the rest of these posts I'm wondering if I've got what the breeders told me back to front!

Originally Posted by FreyjaRoMaine

Having read through the rest of these posts I'm wondering if I've got what the breeders told me back to front!

I am not quite sure what you mean but I'd love to know.

Originally Posted by candes

Antonia, I loved your comparison pics! You know it seems also that the "non extremes" have wider ear bases.

Thanks candes. Minnie is far from extreme, but she does look 'edgy' compared to Tatja. More of a cunning-catty face, I think. She gets that from her mum who looks like she'd be happy to bite your head off anytime.

Speaking of extreme types... I am not sure if it’s allowed to link to cattery websites, but I am doing it anyway.

Here are some examples of the extreme look. Both German breeders btw.

http://www.maine-coon-düsseldorf.de...=home&hl=en_US

Interestingly, they say they want to ‘preserve the typical extreme wild appearance’ of the MC … Interesting because we've just been discussing how the 'typical extreme wild appearance' could be just in the mind of breeders and fanciers.

Here's the other one.
summerplace

I am curious about your opinions about some of these cats.

I would have said that over here most of the "inbreeding"would have been in the earlier days anyway due to the very small gene pool that would have been available,now with new blood coming in from other countries most breeders are able to use lines that have no connection unless you track back a long way & therefore the breed should be stronger not weaker,the same with us humans once the inbreeding was stopped.
I find all these things interesting but take at face value rather than delving too deep,I put it along side us again,don't smoke,don't drink,eat healthy,exercise properly etc.etc,walk out of the house & a tile comes off the roof & hits you on the head,doesn't matter how healthy a road you have taken you can't cover all eventualities.The same goes for our loved furries,buy from a breeder who has done their research well on the breeding lines & has carried out any of the tests on their breeding stock that can help eliminate nasties within the breed & then enjoy the outcome,our little furry darlings but aware that like everything the unexpected can happen.
As for looks did they have to do a lot of inbreeding to get that "extreme look",what if something appeared in your line that made you think how different the look was & outcrossed that to another that perhaps had a different look to normal,you are already going to start producing a line with a different look & no inbreeding at all,look at my two babes,one is big headed,the spread between the ears wider which in turn makes his ears look smaller,big boned,he has a completly different look to his brother who has the more petite chiselled look with bigger ears,same litter.....!
As to the sounds differing all I can say is candes that the one I cuddled over 40 years ago chirruped & had dog like behaviour thats why it caused so much interest in the village.
Have just got all my different looking furries home from the cattery so now going to catch up on some long lost kisses & cuddles,no matter what their genetic makeup is I love them all for what they are now,my furry babies....x

Originally Posted by candes

Wow those links....... Some of those kitties I wouldn't even call MC. They look like genetic mutants. While others are not as drastic and are cute.

I would certainly not consider many of these cats nor Congocoons cats to be true Maine Coons, in the sense of being representative of the long-haired cats that developed naturally in Maine. I have never seen a single photo of an early MC that looks anything at all like these cats. They are definitely interesting looking, though, so if people want to breed and buy them that is fine with me; just call them something other than Maine Coon. There are lots of cat breeds that were produced from other breeds and now are considered unique breeds. Maine Coons are supposed to be a natural breed. Look up virtually any description of MCs and you will see this as a key element. These extreme cats certainly took considerable human manipulation to produce, as Congocoons proclaims that it has taken 17 years of careful breeding to produce "their look!" Thus in a very real sense you can say that they are not Maine Coons, no matter what gene lines they were developed from. After all, even chihuauas were developed from wolf genes.

Have just had a look & I think some of them look like that lady who has had so much plastic surgery on her face that you would hardly recognise her as being female....

Originally Posted by jckkerrison

Have just had a look & I think some of them look like that lady who has had so much plastic surgery on her face that you would hardly recognise her as being female....

In the US I think Joan Rivers is widely considered the prototypical example of a woman who has had way too much cosmetic surgery and hardly even looks human anymore. But I have seen photos of even worse examples when the surgery goes wrong.

I basically agree with your assessment. Not at all balanced. I either say, "wow look at those ears," or "wow, look at the size of that muzzle." On the other hand, they almost certainly look more like miniature lions than any other cat, domestic or wild. I can understand why this would appeal to people, so I have no problem with these cats being bred. Just don't call them Maine Coons, as this is not a naturally developed look. It would be tragic if this is what most "Maine Coons" look like in 20 years. The breed was already rescued from near extinction once. Hopefully we won't end up with just a handful of breeders breeding "authentic" MCs and most breeding these extremes. I wonder about this sort of thing when I see the Congocoons woman was on the CFA MC Breed Council, and that CFA revised their MC standard in 2009. Wonder how it changed? Luckily none of the breeders we know well seem to be aiming for the extreme sort of look. Of course to some extent what happens will be determined by what people want to buy (the sudden popularity of imported breeds like the Persian in the US in the early 1900's is what nearly did the MC in once). If the extreme type becomes hot, then more and more breeders will try to produce them.

Originally Posted by candes

I don't think this is a concern. Many of us woman love the natural sweet faced bambi look.

Interesting ... I found the Congocoons a wee too extreme for my taste, but my wife really liked the look! As the saying goes, de gustibus non est disputandum.

Originally Posted by candes

Here is another reason it won't happen. Take a look at the Persian face. Those poor Persians can't breath right and in some cases have to be on antiobiotics for life due to malformed sinuses. And some Persians can't even eat! Why? because the standards were written too vaguely.

I agree what has happened to the Persian breed is deplorable. Unfortunately, a significant number of people like extremes in their pets: just think about the dog breeds with same kind of breathing problems as the Persians because of the desire for the flat face. Even worse, IMO, consider the problems with hydrocephalus in the cavalier King Charles spaniel because of the desire for the small head.. Or the spinal problems which so many dachshunds suffer because of the desire for an elongated body. Unfortunately, there are pet breeders who subordinate the health of an animal to the preferences of buyers.

Originally Posted by candes

I guess I should have said many "people" like the sweet look. Yes unfortunately there are breeders that are willing to do anything for a buck. But the animals could end up suffering in the end.

And I feel that there are ethical issues involved too. They are live animals, not toys to be tinkered with. What does the breeder do with seriously genetically flawed kittens that are born. Not the results they were aiming for and so severe that the line can't be continued? It is animal cruelty no matter if the animals live or are disposed with.

Perhaps there should be fines and jail time for anyone who tampers with and causes damage to animals. Since it is animal cruelty. Then these frankensteins would think twice before they try messing with nature. But the problem with this, is that the damaging results may take a very long time to surface.

I agree with you 100%.

I'm not sure why, but it seems dogs have suffered more than cats in the area of breeding for extremes which have resulted in serious health problems. It was 'designer dogs' first, but 'designer cats' can now be found. I really dislike the idea of 'designer' animals; it makes a living creature a mere object.

I see it as a manifestation of today's all-too-common acquisitiveness and materialism along with a lack of respect for life (except, of course, one's own).

(Off my soapbox.)